> literal years in prison for taking a shit where they "shouldn't"
No, and you know that's not what anyone is saying. Shitting in public, or in other people's private areas, shouldn't have zero consequences simply because the ultimate consequences sound harsh out of context.
And yes, because jailing someone who has sunken to pooping on the street is generally an important part of their treatment plan. Not letting people live in squalor is actually kindness, even if the alternative is enforced.
> such harsh measures in secret
Oh my. Are you serious? Harsh measures? Some people try to raise children without rules and they always do more harm than good. Especially trying to avoid such simple rules about reasonable boundaries.
> No, and you know that's not what anyone is saying.
In reply to the issue of how we should be punishing "petty" street crimes, the commenter I was replying to said,
> An exponential back off from society
In my experience, exponentials grow pretty quickly. So yeah, it kinda seems like that's what they were implying.
> Shitting in public, or in other people's private areas, shouldn't have zero consequences simply because the ultimate consequences sound harsh out of context.
Give me the context in which pooping anywhere, any number of times seems reasonable to punish with significant jail time. Yes, there should be some form of discouragement from this but making sure people have access to a toilet seems a lot easier.
> And yes, because jailing someone who has sunken to pooping on the street is generally an important part of their treatment plan. Not letting people live in squalor is actually kindness, even if the alternative is enforced.
Jail does not help people. It is statistically shown to make their lives materially worse, make them less healthy and make them more likely to commit further crimes. Treatment sure, I'm all for it. Even when it doesn't work.
> Oh my. Are you serious? Harsh measures?
Yeah, I actually believe depriving people of their freedom of movement is a really big deal.
"Jail does not help people. It is statistically shown to make their lives materially worse, make them less healthy and make them more likely to commit further crimes. Treatment sure, I'm all for it. Even when it doesn't work."
The chronically homeless drug addicts of san francisco that everyone is concerned with are beyond helping. For the worst 1-10% that stir up all of the news and fears, the solution here is not a treatment plan and release back to society. These folks should not go to solitarty confinement, or even a normal jail, but we absolutely need a long term mental health detention facility process for these folks. Many of these people (1) cause a huge negative impact to everyone around them through their antisocial behavior (2) have a huge cost to society through their consumption of public resources like 911 calls, police/fire/emergency room visits street cleaning of shit (3) these people absolutely refuse any voluntary treatment options up to and including supportive housing that allows drugs and alcohol. They don't want to live in apartments, they don't really even have the concept of agency that we understand, they are so far gone that they need to be cared for by the state in a higher capacity then they are right now.
> Give me the context in which pooping anywhere, any number of times seems reasonable to punish with significant jail time.
Sure, even doing it just once if I were to do it in your living room. Or in front of your house, if I had a reasonable alternative.
> Yes, there should be some form of discouragement from this but making sure people have access to a toilet seems a lot easier.
Okay, so you are fine with arresting anyone who simply won't use the provided toilet? Great.
What if I don't put the toilet right in my yard, but put the toilet over there somewhere, so you're not all up in my space? Why is 'right here' the magical place where people must camp and poop?
> Jail does not help people. It is statistically shown to make their lives materially worse, make them less healthy and make them more likely to commit further crimes.
That's far from true in all contexts. Unhoused criminals on the streets of a modern drug city face incredible risk from being left to live in the camps, and jail doesn't necessarily mean supermax anyways.
> Treatment sure, I'm all for it. Even when it doesn't work.
How wonderfully liberal.
I'm for forcing people into the treatment that's proven to work rather than kindly letting them die horribly.
No, and you know that's not what anyone is saying. Shitting in public, or in other people's private areas, shouldn't have zero consequences simply because the ultimate consequences sound harsh out of context.
And yes, because jailing someone who has sunken to pooping on the street is generally an important part of their treatment plan. Not letting people live in squalor is actually kindness, even if the alternative is enforced.
> such harsh measures in secret
Oh my. Are you serious? Harsh measures? Some people try to raise children without rules and they always do more harm than good. Especially trying to avoid such simple rules about reasonable boundaries.