That was the main one, and also in case you ever ended up with car trouble you had a record of every place you had filled up and every time you had the car serviced. It was also financial: you could tell how much you were spending on gas, whether gas prices were going up or down, which stations had the cheapest gas, etc.
Nowadays a lot of this is recoverable from your credit card statements (though again, I don't know anybody who actually does this), but in the 80s you would usually pay cash for gas.
A friend of mine in high school (2012) was required to add to the notebook his parents kept in the car whenever he got gas. I wonder if his parents still do that kind of record keeping now that the car tells you its MPG, gas price historical data is easily accessible, and card purchases are tagged as "Gas" automatically in the banks that I use.
I do actually audit each transaction in my card statements each month to look briefly at the categories of spending I use most. Gas is a category, but that number doesn't really change my behavior. It's just a data point.
I’ve been keeping a spreadsheet of all my fillups. Mostly because I was curious about my monthly spend on gas with it having gone up so much. But it’s been interesting to see the mpg over time.
From what I've seen the US has never really put much effort behind surface-to-surface missiles in the first place because when you have a massive and well-funded air force that's a lot better tool for executing long-range fires. Not to say that losing those missiles won't hurt if we get into a war in the medium-term (or want to supply more firepower to our allies), especially in a more land-based theatre like eastern Europe.
>Army never had a lot of ATACMs to begin with as launching missiles at things is not really their job
It's called the Army tactical missile system FFS. It was literally built for them. It's rocket artillery!
We built only 3500 of the missiles total. We stopped investing in rocket artillery because they get very close to IRBMs, and those were banned until recently.
The Marines had some, but not anymore (IIRC). Other branches have zero. The replacement, PrSM is not in any serious production yet.
Other long range precision strike munitions include:
Tomahawk: 10k total production through all US history. We only fired 800ish total in all of the 2003 Invasion of Iraq. We have so far fired over 1000 in Iran. The immense "Shock and Awe" that the world drooled over during the Gulf War involved fewer than 300 Tomahawks.
AGM-158 JASSM: This is our bread and butter Air launched cruise missile (There isn't an air launched version of Tomahawk!). They only cost about $800k each! Lockheed claims they can someday build 1000 a year. We built 10k total. We fired 1100 in Iran so far and only have 1500 left.
AGM-86 ALCM: A 70s era cruise missile. We built 1800. We supposedly only have a few hundred remaining as nuclear tipped cruise missiles.
Donald Trump has fired over 2500 of our missiles in Iran, for no benefit, which represents a massive draw down of our long range precision munitions.
> AGM-158 JASSM: This is our bread and butter Air launched cruise missile (There isn't an air launched version of Tomahawk!). They only cost about $800k each! Lockheed claims they can someday build 1000 a year. We built 10k total. We fired 1100 in Iran so far and only have 1500 left.
What exploded last week in Poland, a NATO country, was a fully armed Russian equivalent of JASSM. Poland has maybe few dozen of JASSM and even fewer F16... ohh and last year Poland pointlessly wrecked one of its F16, the only platform capable of launching JASSM it posses. Russia is watching really closely these shenanigans.
I'd put the emphasis on Tactical- 3500 is not a lot of a tactical weapon, but that's because there are not a lot of tactical targets worth launching a missile at. The fact that they're being used at all just shows what a cluster the entire operation is.
Article should be titled 'The Lost Civic Life of Mom and Pop Stores'- no kid making $4.50 an hour is cultivating a third space atmosphere at Blockbuster, whereas any Mom and Pop place can do that, no matter what they sell.
I was thinking about the loss of local shops a lot recently. There's definitely a confluence of factors at play, and it's not just price economics vs online & big box.
One thing I think is that theres just never enough time. Everyone is so over-scheduled. The white collar work day really has expanded vs what I remember my dad doing 30-40 years ago. There's more two income households than in the past. Parenting is far more active for both parents than it's ever been, and kids are being shuttled between events all weekend.
Most local shops are not open past 5pm or at best 6pm, and often closed Sunday. Who is off work by then to stop by?
Easier to click buy on amazon, and stop by the big box store after dinner Saturday open til 9pm for anything you need sooner.
Was just talking with an older colleague about this. Work used to end Friday afternoon. The amount of emails I get (and send) over the weekend means there is truly never any off time.
It isn’t, really. If it’s the expected norm in your job then there’s a real chance you’ll lose your job if you don’t do it. And particularly the kind of jobs market we see today that’s a real risk.
I'm not sure what authority you have on this subject, but anecdotally speaking as a non-software engineer who would lump himself with "most people," when it comes to white-collar work, I have noticed that all of my colleagues are, at the very least, expected to read email during time off (weekend or PTO) if not respond.
This applies to adjacent industries as well. I semi-regularly get email from firms (in the same time zone as mine) in the 11PM–2AM range.
Again, I'm not purporting to have any more experience than you do, but you can't assert that this is a tech-industry-only phenomenon when I am sure applicable examples other than my own could be found. I wish I could go without, but spending the first billable hour catching up on email is not really acceptable.
In my experience in white-collar and tech jobs since 2019, nobody I've ever worked with has been expected to be reachable after hours. Same goes for my wife, all tech jobs as well. If someone messages me and I'm online, I'll answer, and it's about 50/50 that they say "Oh you didn't need to respond this late, just work on this tomorrow!"
It's rent. We are all working so hard to pay the rent. Which always expands to take any money available and then some. It's stack-ranking us on working hours.
when i get off work i would absolutely (and do) shop at stores that are open.
i stopped 90% of online shopping a couple years ago so once i regained the lay of the land of where to get what, shopping at mom and pop stores is tough since they seem to close right when everyone gets off work.
larger chain stores seem to keep longer hours so they get more of my business than i’d like. even then i’m still happier than when i bought everything online, no question about it.
I don't think that's really what we've lost. Blockbuster was a third space not because of its staff, but because it was a place you could say "meet me here" and hang out looking at movies with no (or very little) expected monetary output. Same as arcades in the mall, or cheap matinee movies. A better framing might be where would a teenager, today, say "meet me here" to their friends. I think you'll find there's many fewer around you today than there was 20 years ago.
That doesn’t match my experience if your bar is really as low as “won’t throw you out for not buying anything”.
Obvious anecdata, but within an easy walk or bike radius of me (a couple miles) there are 3 public libraries, something like half a square mile of parks, a few public basketball courts, a few public tennis courts, a public baseball field, a bar over the baseball field that welcomes children (it’s one of the veterans things and has board games and what not), at least a dozen other businesses that don’t care if you buy anything, and your usual litany of Walmart kind of places that can’t be bothered to track who is buying and who isn’t.
I don’t have any issues finding places to hang out for free, and I use them, but they’re pretty sparsely used so it’s not as 3rd space as it used to be.
Eg I walk my dogs most mornings, and I rarely see more than 1 other person at the park or dog park at 7 or 8am.
It feels to me like 3rd spaces are disappearing because people don’t use them, rather than people don’t use them because they don’t exist.
Depends entirely on your country. Your country may have that, but I don’t recognise that from any of the 4 libraries I’ve been to in the last 12 months or the additional 4 I’ve been to in the last few years.
And that's a perfect description for how the USA has fallen.
This place IS the supposed '3rd world shithole' that Republicans say. That the libraries, the legacy from the early Carnegie 1900's billionaires, are now the climate refuge and place to try to succeed for the homeless.
We (royal) fail so many humans, prey on the absolute conquest of 'make more money at all costs'.
Definitely, and renting a video itself was often a communal activity. You'd be hanging out with your friends or family and get the hankering to see a movie, so you all pile in the car together and see what they had. You'd argue back and forth about this movie or that movie, and you had to be flexible since your first pick might not be in stock. Strangers would give you suggestions or you'd see what was recommended by the staff. Lots of times you'd end up taking up something completely different than what you had planned.
We are unfair to teenagers today; give them no place to go and then we feign surprise when they act up. According to Harper's, there's a 20% decline in kids playing baseball--their noses are in their iPads. You can't take children to the mall because malls are dying. Too many parks are places where bad things happen. I don't know what the solution is.
Not only that, the tween years used to be when you developed the skills of independence that you'd hopefully more or less be able to use to be a teenager. A 9 or 10-year-old would have permission to walk or bike around the neighborhood, to and from school, maybe to a nearby shopping center or corner store... Today they're kept under lock and key for that whole time since we're afraid of having the cops called on us for "unsupervised children walking" by insane people. Teens don't even know how to bridge the gap between "fully chaperoned child" and "adult" so when they are unsupervised they get into trouble, and when they become adults they are so unconfident they do things like choosing college not because they have a passion for a subject, or for learning, or a career interest, but because when you're enrolled in college they arrange your life's schedule and assign you a living space without you having to handle any of the complexity yourself.
Scarily enough, I bet every generation since Gen-X has been largely raised by Boomers: Gen-X and Milennials largely had boomer parents. Many kids in the later generations are effectively being raised by their (Boomer) grandparents because their parents are either not involved or absent because working too hard.
For most of my 13 year old kid's friends, I only know their grandparents. Never see the actual parents.
There are a lot of things we could do, but it would mean opposing governments penchant to have control and authority over average citizens. 50 years ago some teens run down the sidewalk being loud, maybe even shooting a bottle rocket or two being a nuisance, what happens? 99% of the time nothing at all, once in awhile a cop might see them and give them a stern warning to be good, and honestly even if they wanted to try and bring charges most courts would have thrown them out if they didn't hurt anybody or break anything because what authority do they have to say kids can't be loud and annoying? Now what happens today if some teens are being loud going down the sidewalk and shoot off a single bottle rocket or just smack a trashcan too loud? Cops get called, kids are forced to submit and half the time handcuffed, somebody gets charged with a crime whether it is a minor for "resisting" by trying to run when they saw a cop coming, having a "dangerous" explosive of a bottle rocket, or a vape, or maybe the parents for being "negligent" for letting their minor run around in public unsupervised or "abuse" for telling their kid to go outside unsupervised. Best case they spend thousands on a lawyer and get the case dismissed, or if they can't afford a lawyer get thousands in fines and fees plus a criminal record.
Unpopular opinion: baseball is not fun at all to play in organized leagues for children. Baseball is, however, the best pick-up game to play with ten friends, house rules, and improvised equipment.
It's like how Twister is super fun to play with your friends casually but how you'd never want to play in an organized Twister league.
Malls barely exist, at least compared to the way they did 20 years ago. I wasn't arguing all third spaces are gone, but even of the ones you did note I'd bet in most communities their funding/availability has decreased in that time period.
Malls are dying. Many are closed. Public libraries are daycare for the homeless and parents are afraid to leave their children. Your other options may be well-run, but all suffer from a lack of funding and staffing. Pools aren't a year-round thing, even in the South.
Malls have been in decline for decades. Public pools barely exist anymore either. (https://www.poolmagazine.com/pool-news/america-is-losing-pub...). If you're in a wealthy city you probably still have a decent community center. Libraries are probably the most common space avilable, but they are also under constant attack by republicans. In wealthy cities you can find all kinds of services there. Smaller libraries will have some areas for reading and meeting.
If I'm having a problem with a server and you commented "Former sysadmin was dumb and lazy, so they misconfigured it" (and you're correct) is that constructive?
I think we mostly all agree that we as a society caused the problem, but we can't go back and undo that. Constructive would be coming up with ways we can, given the past did take place, improve things going forward.
I disagree with your analogy. I'm pointing out specific mistakes in the former sysadmin's misconfiguration. And also that the misconfiguration can be rolled back.
We can vote for politicians that fund projects and facilities for general use and welfare. We can congregate more in the malls and community centers and bowling alleys (and churches too, if that's your style), that we still have. The loss of community isn't irreversible. Yet.
> We can vote for politicians that fund projects and facilities for general use and welfare.
Putting aside the increasing efforts to limit our ability to vote for change, we have to fight against very well funded campaigns trying to convince people that we shouldn't fund projects and facilities for general use and welfare. There's a lot money and power being used to encourage people to be more isolated as well. The public is growing less educated and more fearful. People have fewer friends, fewer social skills, and historically high levels of anxiety and depression.
While there may still be places to go, the ones that don't cost money are going away or at risk, and the problem goes deeper than access to physical spaces. Some things will have to change before we can expect people to really take advantage of what spaces we have left.
Whenever I see these sorts of stories I think about the civic life we're missing out on by not socially gathering with our neighbors to hunt down woolly mammoths with sharp sticks so we don't all collectively starve to death.
The way things are going maybe we'll get back to those wonderful days. ;)
A bunch of families in the town I grew up in bought a fairly large cabin together in northern Ontario they just called "the hunting camp". My family wasn't involved but I got to go up there quite a few times as a guest of my friends.
In theory, the adults were hunting or fishing (although not with pointy sticks). In reality they were smoking, drinking, playing cards, screwing around on the little boat and atvs that were there (three wheelers!), and telling lies around a campfire. Us kids were pretty much on our own the entire time. We too were smoking, drinking, and screwing around on the boat and atvs.
So I agree with you- pointy stick hunting is a great weekend activity.
The only non-bar place with an social atmosphere that I even know of anymore is one town nearby has a hardware store that has the old family line running it that the father and grandfather can sit around shooting the shit in it as a semi-job as they let their kids manage and operate it. And so a lot of other grey beards like to hang around for awhile when they go to pick up a can of 3-in-1 oil or a can of paint because they have known these people for 60+ years. They did have to move to a more prime location in town as the town shrank over the decades, and they also added a gun/sportings good section, and then one son learned gunsmithing to make its otherwise limited size and selection more useful.
But that is certainly not the norm, im not sure if I could find another hardware store like it within 100 miles. The social atmosphere probably barely manages to bring in the extra business needed to maintain it and it took 3 consecutive generations working well enough together and towards their customers to never break the strong community bond.
Places don't need to be curated to have value as civic spaces, although it certainly helps. Seniors hang out at the local McDonalds, car modding enthusiasts gather in strip mall parking lots, singles meet at the dog park...
Any place you have to physically go to provides a chance for social interaction. To debate your friends over what movie to pick, to comment on your neighbor's selections, to ask a clerk for a recommendation. Are these pretty slight? Sure, but life is made fuller by these minor brushes, and you never know which ones will unexpectedly bloom into something more.
I made $6 an hour working at a video game store in the early 00s and most of our employees would chat it up with other gamers all the time. We had lots of regulars.
100% I miss my local pharmacy. Knew the family that owned it and worked there (not well but enough to say hello), really enjoyed occasionally having breakfast as the lunch counter on a Saturday morning. So much better than going to cvs or Walgreens etc.
It's funny, one of the benchmarks I've used when trying to decide when things went off the rails was that banning CFCs was a relatively uncontroversial thing in the 1990s. Now, I agree with your pessimism.
The same rails that failed to ban coal power in the 1990s? That controversially both did and didn't ban nuclear power? And what about satanic rituals? People rightly disagree on decisions that have unknown consequences in either direction. It's not off the rails, it's just different from your personal opinion.
The Weird Stuff Warehouse also didn't close their Heaven branch. I heard they are running a promotion on Tektronix calligraphic display terminals. In heaven, they are still being made and now have fast ethernet connections, as well as serial.
First, the bulk of the Russian forces are still armed forces personnel. Second, even if most of the Russian forces consisted of mercenaries, their pay and their tactical objectives would come from the Russian government, which also directs the strategic objectives. A cyberpunk corporate war is fought entirely between corporations, for corporate reasons.
What even is this argument? Why are you people wasting my and your time on this?
Considering how the former leader of Wagner countermanded orders from above and was recalled, as well as Wagner’s usage of press-ganged convicts straight out of gulags, the unit was fairly irregular compared to the Russian military proper. Wagner’s other activities such as natural resource diversion from their legitimate owner/lessor seems to firmly put the organization proper in cyberpunk territory.
Cyberpunk as a concept is fairly subjective and subject to interpretation. Perhaps your conception of cyberpunk is more exclusive and prescriptive than others’? I wouldn’t interpret a difference of opinion about the tropes or ethos of cyberpunk in a normative way.
Just because folks see cyberpunk aspects in society or literature that you do not is not a contradiction of your own perceptions. It might be a case of prescriptivism vs descriptivism.
Does art imitate life, or does life imitate art, or both (or neither)? You seem to be saying that cyberpunk is only a literary genre, which is somewhat limiting the discussion when so many cyberpunk works have been adapted to other media, which then inspires other works which were never in written form to begin with. To limit your own discussion to written works is your prerogative, but it seems a needlessly narrow scope for the discussion of others who don’t share your view.
To say that we’re wasting our own time is to discount the fact that others are participating in the discussion in good faith for their own reasons. HN writ large isn’t a means to an end, HN and the individuals of HN are ends unto themselves.
>Wagner’s other activities such as natural resource diversion from their legitimate owner/lessor seems to firmly put the organization proper in cyberpunk territory.
What I said was that the Ukrainian war is not a corporate war. The composition or actions of the Wagner group are completely irrelevant. WG could be composed of anarchist hacker cyborgs who participate in armed conflicts to fund their struggle against what they perceive as a corporatocracy, and the Ukranian war would still not be a corporate war.
The points system whereby Ukrainian soldiers’ units earn credits for confirmed kills (with a bonus for live capture) of Russian and other nations’ hostile forces, which can be redeemed for drones and other materiel from plethora of international and domestic startups competing with established arms megacorps, as opposed to top-down procurement diktats reads to me as cyberpunk. The growing usage of (semi)autonomous ground drones on both sides also seems fairly cyberpunk in a Terminator sense. The participation of forces from other rogue states like North Korea in exchange for food and arms is cyberpunk.
Reasonable people can disagree, as I alluded to above, but I wouldn’t say that disagreement on the points or in itself is pointless or wrong, which seems to be where we differ. Whether something is cyberpunk is in the eye of the beholder, a subjective experience in the reader of art and of literature and of history. I don’t see how you can say what something seems like to others, as that is to second guess their own experience of reality (or as mediated by fiction, in the the case of artistic works).
To me, the cyberpunk ethos can be summarized as high tech, low life. Utilizing literal convicts as frontline soldiers by Wagner in Ukraine seems to fit that description to a tee.
In light of the above combined with the routine usage of AI on all sides, the conflict in Ukraine as a whole seems to be a literal expression of “sustainable war” as depicted in Ghost in the Shell: SAC_2045, which is widely regarded as a cyberpunk work.
> In effect, the G4 nations went to war with each other in a "sustainable" manner managed by AIs: fighting deliberately avoided damaging major cities and essential infrastructure, mercenaries, and autonomous war machines were heavily used, and the goal of most battles was to destroy enemy structures, vehicles, and equipment while taking reasonable measures to capture rather than fatally harm human combatants when possible. In other words, the conflict would be sustainable as almost all losses could, in theory, be perpetually replaced by the military-industrial complex.
It’s more corporate than any past war, and for the reasons stated, it is hard to imagine how it could be more corporate if the belligerents tried. The direct involvement of startups in weapons dev combined with the points system creating a market for material driven by individuals and small groups rather than a traditional procurement process is hyper capitalist. The absence of direct conflict between corporations à la Shadowrun doesn’t meaningfully change the calculus for my determination that the Ukraine was is a corporate war.
Regarding your edit:
> I won't let you move the goalposts.
I don’t know what this statement is referring to, but I haven’t changed any of my positions regarding what I perceive as cyberpunk or whether or not I view the Ukraine war as corporate (and cyberpunk).
Perhaps you view the discussion as one where points are scored, but I don’t. I view the discussion as a collaborative enterprise where we both express ourselves and develop our own ideas in the context of a wider discussion.
If there’s something specific I said you would like me to address, please let me know, as I don’t know what you mean.
Okay, fine. Then you're using the term in a different sense than I did. What's your point with this line of argumentation? Are you disagreeing with my definition of "corporate war", or are you disagreeing with the Ukrainian war not being a corporate one by my definition?
> What's your point with this line of argumentation? Are you disagreeing with my definition of "corporate war", or are you disagreeing that the Ukrainian war is not a corporate one by my definition?
It’s a discussion board. I’m discussing the topic and trying to get to know what you think and believe, and thanks to your prompting, I got to know what I think and believe a little better myself. I don’t have any desire to disagree with you, as I don’t think that either one of us are making statements that have an objective quality to them, as the context is too subjective and subject to interpretation.
I don’t know enough about your definition of “corporate war” in the context of this thread, since you said we’re using different definitions, so maybe you could share a little bit about what that term means to you? What would it take to make the Ukrainian war a corporate war, to you? What are qualities of corporate war, and how would you or I know it when we see it? Can you think of some examples that meet your definition of corporate war, either in fiction or in real life?
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